// Quick Theme Changer Start $txt['quick_theme_changer'] = 'Quick Theme Changer'; // Quick Theme Changer End Where are all the AMX 3 'S ?
So Cal AMC
October 31, 2014, 04:17:00 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
WE ARE NOW ON FACEBOOK
 
   Home   Help RULES Search Calendar Donations Login Register  
Buy Our DVD Signup For the Event!
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Where are all the AMX 3 'S ?  (Read 7558 times)
Hey you: NEWS FLASH!!!!! We appreciate your patronage to this forum because we know there are other AMC Forums you can visit. But this forum is part of AMO, The International historical club for AMC. HERE IS THE NEWS FOR NOW! SO CAL AMC Car Show & Luau 2015
Racing Zorba
Teach me to race
Premium AMC Member I
RAMBLER
****

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 863


ADMINISTRATOR


« on: March 29, 2008, 06:07:10 PM »



Where are all the AMX 3
's ? Huh

What is the history about the AMX/3: The AMX/2 Styling prototype was designed by Richard Teague to participate in a call for designs from AMC. Others participated in this call for designs including Bizzarrini. [Other sources indicate that Giorgetto Giugiaro built a styling mockup, which was never shown to the public. -Jim] The Teague design won by a long shot and was approved to the prototype stage.

BMW was contacted to construct the prototypes, but was not chosen because of their elevated prices. So AMC asked Giotto Bizzarrini [a top race car engineer and builder] if he would do the prototypes. [AMC also considered having Karmann in Germany build the car.] Giotto was contracted for ten prototypes and the follow on construction. (Apparently the brass at AMC felt unsure about the prospect of building a mid-engined car.) The first prototype was mostly completed (90%ish) and a construction problem appeared suddenly. The English to Metric conversions from the drawings were incorrect and the car could not be completed to a driving state. This car was a push-mobile used for shows only (It was cosmetically correct). The next 4 cars were completed with proper conversions. The research that followed was conducted by AMC in the U.S. as well as by BMW and Turin Polytechnic in Europe.

About this time (late 1969) AMC learned about Ford's work with DeTomaso and the Pantera. Result: AMC introduced the AMX/3 at auto shows around the world one full year before Ford introduced the Pantera. Designers from other makers were shocked (some refused to believe that AMC designed it) and amazed by the car.

Testing results started to come in from BMW and Turin Polytech. BMW proclaimed the body assembly (a boxed sill backbone structure) one of the most rigid structures that they had ever tested. Speed runs were limited to 160 M.P.H. due to body lifting because of the lack of a front spoiler. Cooling modifications were made to cars 2, 3, 4 and 5 and retrofitted to car 1 later in 1970. Meanwhile AMC ordered 5 more prototypes and Giotto began construction.

Ultimately, AMC found that the car would have to sell for more than $12,000; even though that is a small figure today, the Pantera was released for less than $10,000. AMC didn't take the risk. It ordered the unfinished prototypes destroyed and dropped the project. The End.
But not realy the end
Giotto destroyed 4 of his 5 protos. He just couldn't bring himself to chop up the nearly done car. So he and his business partner completed the car themselves from spares. Cars 3, 4, and 5 were sold to Richard Teague. Cars 1 and 2 were lost, found, sold, lost and found again. Dick Teague sold two of his three to private collectors. The whereabouts of car 6 are now known -- it remains to this day in Italy. Dick Teague's comments on the #6 car: "Wow, I wouldn't be surprised if a few more show up." (!!!!)

The aftermath: The cars trade hands and are shown some. Richard Teague purchased the 28 remaining custom built OTO Melara Transaxles from AMC for the storage and shipping fees (to repair his own AMX/3). Motor Trend did a four page retrospective in the June 1990 issue (very highly recommended).
Specifications


    Defaul3.gif (1752 bytes)

What they all have in common:

    * 390 c.i.d. engine
    * OTO Melara 4 speed transaxle
    * Vacuum actuated headlamps (which are rumored to have drooped when the throttles were nailed)
    * Power steering
    * 4-wheel power disc brakes (hydraulic assist from the power steering pump)
    * Teague designed T-window double pane glass between cockpit and engine compartment
    * 4-wheel independent suspension:
      single coil-over shock unequal length A-arm up front and dual coil-over shock trailing arm/A-arm in the rear
    * Cars #2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 have a mostly non-functional rear pop- up spoiler
    * Leather interior

The car-by-car where-they-are
(This is information gleaned from as many sources as I could glean from! Possible inaccuracies noted below.)

   1. Considering that the car couldn't be made to run because of the construction errors it traded hands a few times. It is currently rusting in the basement of a barn at the Gilmore Classic Car Club Museum. I have personally examined this vehicle (video taped it too!!!). The museum is reluctant to restore the car because the paperwork has purportedly disappeared and its origins are mysterious. No VIN number, but I found a 1973 Michigan license plate in the vehicle. Its number is RIK 423 with 1974 sticker #3-595644. Before Dick Teague passed away he donated a tranny to the museum reportedly. Strangely however the engine in the car has 70-W-No5 marked on the chrome valve covers with black paint, I have no idea. I offered to the curators of the museum to restore the car for free(!). No dice, it looks like bureaucracy has committed this one to rust away, so much for preserving history.
   2. Was sold to a guy in MI and was lost by all accounts that I tapped. It reappeared as the "chicken coop" car. For sale when last checked in Indiana for over $200,000. The car is reported to be badly rusted and missing parts. It is also full of bird droppings (yuk!). Good Luck.
   3. This car was owned by Richard Teague until his death. It was donated to the San Diego Auto Museum along with most of his papers. This is the car in Motor Trend [and the car pictured on this page??].
   4. This car was sold by Teague to unknown persons, then to Mr. Mimbs of Georgia. He sold much of his AMC collection to a man in Alabama. It and the AMX/2 styling exercise are both for sale in Hemmings -- the AMX/3 for $225,000 and AMX/2 for $25,000 (Buy now and Save).
   5. This car was sold to Teague and then sold to a man in Florida. I do not know his name, I do not know the car. I do know that the car is blue and was the BMW car. (Possibly inaccurate, however this story confirmed by 2 reliable sources.)
   6. This car is still in Italy and differs from the other cars in that it has retractable wipers and a different rear body. It is owned by Giotto's Business partner.
   7. ...... Who knows? We're still waiting.

The  proposals

1968 Proposal Styrofoam by Giorgio Giugiaro

1968/69 AMX/2 Proposal, fiberglass Red by Dick Teague and his design team.
Was displayed at the 1969 Chicago Auto Show.
Was for sale February 1993, at the Prisma Collection Montgomery Alabama for $25,000.

1969/70 AMX/K Proposal.
"Body?" Dark Grey, prototype for a production run of 1000 units, to be built by Karmann Germany, later droped.
It was cheaper to build the cars in Italy at Bizzarrini's Plant.
AMX3_yellow_back_640x480x67.jpg (17548 bytes)    

    1969/70 AMX/3 Proposal, fiberglass Yellow, build by AMC design team.
Was last displayed in 1973 of AMC Styling audiotium.
May have been used in March 1970 New York Auto Show sponcerd by the Petersen Publishing "World of Wheels" display. Also maybe the mock-up that was given to the Rippey Venteran Car Museum in 10-31-1973 that had just been painted a Metallic Green. Rippey Venteran Car Museum, sold it in 1982 for $ 2000.00. May be lost?

Car No1    

Gilmore Museum in Kalamazoo, Michigan reported in several soarses as being unrestorable.
It was not maintained?
It has also reported that the car from the outside measures up, but that the internal mechanical parts don't match the outer shell construction.
2    

Test "Rides" at race tack with Mark Donohue.

Last seen in the 1989.
Was owned by James Silvey, Indianapolis, pictured in 1981.
Cohen.There are also picture of car in Monza during the test by BMW team.
Note it lost the original factory mag wheels, when delivered to the US at the ship yard.(Red)

CAR No 3

#3 This was the car pictured in 1970 at the Rome press release.
In 1981, and July 1984 Owned by Dick Teagues, was in Motor Trend 1990.
Was on display San Diego Auto Museum? (Red). Now in the Peterson Museum basement
   
#4 No informaition on this car.
May be Blue (same as #6) in 1984 in Indianapolis area?
Where is No 5?

AMX3Teagues
#5 Was Owned by Dick Teague's. He had some remodel work done on it note the firebird tail lights.
This car is considered a "Custom" and was for sale February 1993, at the Prisma Collection Montgomery Alabama for $225,000. It was believed to be yellow

#6 Was the last car.
Was upgraded by a friend of Bizzarrini.
May be the Light Blue Scaibola? Now Red?
Note it hideaway wipers, and the large flared out wheel wells. (Mr. Diamonte/Turin)

The lost cars
#7 Not Completed/destroyed(White)

#8 Not Completed/destroyed(White)

#9 Not Completed/destroyed(White)

Notes: the first five cars are the original cars production run, of 24-units for the 1970 year.
Number 6 was completed by an Italian businessman, he also destroyed the last 3 whate cars (he owned a scrap yard).
INTERVIEW WITH TEAGUE
Ant interview with Richard A. Teague on the AMX/3
Richard A. Teague, longtime design chief for American Motors, is-to use his words a "car nut. " And whether the subject is one of his own creations or something as unusual as the two-cylinder half-scale 1906 Reo touring car he's restoring, you get the distinct feeling he likes nothing better than shooting the breeze with other "car nuts." Collectible Automobile had a chance to confirm this when Teague spoke with us recently about the AMX3 project and the yellow number-five car, which he owns, the one you see on these pages. He had made some rear-end modifications to it, and we were curious about why.    Richard A. Teague
Teague: Oh, I don't know. It was the very last one and didn't have the right taillights in anyway. It had round taillights, which were done because it was the last running prototype. And for some reason or other-somewhere in the scheme of things between here [Michigan] and Turin, Italy-Bizzarrini elected to use some round taillights off of a Fiat or something, and I never did like those lights very much. So I elected to put [in] Pontiac Firebird taillights-turned them upside down. I couldn't have designed them any better. I designed the thing original , I guess I felt I could probably change it.

CA: Did you make any other changes on that car?

Teague: No. At some point I do want to put a front spoiler on it, because they're the rage now and 14 years ago they weren't. That plus the fact that the car lifts at speed.

CA: You or the company never did any aerodynamic testing on the styling?

Teague: No, but I've always wondered what that thing would have achieved as far as Cd is concerned. I couldn't even guess, but it ought to be pretty slippery.

CA: Were you inspired by any partaiculr existing car when you designed the AMX/3?

Teague: Oh no. I knew nothing about the DeTomaso Pantera, and it's been likened by some as looking similar to it. But, of course, that's a function of the mechanicals -it's very low and it's two passenger and it's mid-engine and the engine is forward of the rear axle-so just by its mechanical layout the AMX 3 appears somewhat similar. Not to me but to others. I personally, immodestly say it's a better-looking car than the Pantera.

CA: Some of the front fender shapes reminded us of a later Pininfarina design, namely the Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer.

Teague: I'm an admirer of Pininfarina. I really like those shapes-voluptuous, flowing.

CA: Would you have had to make major changes in the AMX/3 design to accommodate federal safety standards?

Teague: That's what killed the program. The bumper standards were just happening... and soft bumpers were being tested on taxicabs in New York by GM at about this time. The technology really wasn't there to put soft bumpers on the AMX/3 though Pantera made an effort to meet the standards and it did. But it kind of spoiled the front of that car. We just decided the effort involved in all these forthcoming standards... was just too much [on top of] the hassle of trying to get a bodybuilder that could make it at a price that we could sell it for that would be realistic. So all of those things... added up to the program being shelved. But it was a very serious program for a very long time. We tried very hard to make it happen. And we built six prototypes, really. We had a lot of money in the program, not a lot by today's standards, but for a little company that was trying to make a mark it was, I think, a pretty good effort. At least all six of the cars survive.

CA: If you were doing something like the AMX 3 today, what would you do differently?

Teague: I'd make it lighter. It would probably have a four-cylinder engine or a V-6 in the middle ... I've thought very seriously about taking a vehicle like the [European] Renault R5 Turbo, which is a mid-engine, four-cylinder, hot little car and, without doing a lot to the chassis or running gear, shroud that in an AMX/3 design, miniaturized. I think it'd be a sensational car, and put gull doors on it.

Teague, who credits then AMC president Gerald Meyers with instigating the AMX 3 effort, remembers the car fondly, and wants to make sure others do, too.

And what of his involvement? "At that time-until we got into Javelins and AMXs and AMX/3s and Machines-we were trying to shake off that image of always winning the Mobilgas Economy Run. It was really a fun program. That whole Javelin-AMX-AMX/3 total period in my life I look back upon as probably the most interesting one, the most satisfying, the most fun."

This was taken from internet topic posted.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:39:10 AM by socalamcadmin » Logged

Racing Zorba
Teach me to race
Premium AMC Member I
RAMBLER
****

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 863


ADMINISTRATOR


« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 07:06:19 PM »

971 AMX/3 #1
This prototype was not really driveable. It is currently rusting in the basement of a barn at the Gilmore Classic Car Club Museum in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The museum is reluctant to restore the car because its origin are mysterious.
No VIN number, but a 1973 Michigan license plate is found in the vehicle. Its number is RIK 423 with 1974 sticker #3-595644.
AMX historian Jerry Beck offered the curators of the museum to restore the car for free.

1971 AMX/3 #2
Was owned by James Silvey, Indianapolis and Jack Cohen.
For sale when last checked in Indiana for over $200,000. The car is reported to be badly rusted and missing parts.

1971 AMX/3 #3
Press release car of March 23, 1970 and owned by Richard Teague .
It was donated to the San Diego Auto Museum along with most of his papers.
See Motor Trend 1990.

1971 AMX/3 #4
Sold by Teague to collector, then to Mr. Mimbs of Georgia. He sold much of his AMC collection to a collector in Alabama. It and the AMX/2 styling exercise were both for sale in Hemmings - the AMX/3 for $225,000 and AMX/2 for $250,000.

1971 AMX/3 #5
This car was owned by Teague and then sold to a man in Florida.
Maybe the car is blue and was the BMW test car.

1971 AMX/3 #6
This car is still owned by Salvatore Diomante and differs from the other cars in that it has retractable wipers and a different rear body.

AMX Spyder #001
Bizzarrini had the idea to built a spyder and for this project was used a AMX Prototype Giordanengo modified the coupe with the help of Giotto and the car was finished in 1995.
The car looks like a P538 from the "80
Owner : Belgium
Logged

Racing Zorba
Teach me to race
Premium AMC Member I
RAMBLER
****

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 863


ADMINISTRATOR


« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 08:26:47 PM »

AMX/3
By Jerry Beck, vacuum@infinet.com
History of the AMX/3
First some history about the AMX/3: The AMX/2 Styling prototype was designed by Richard Teague to participate in a call for designs from AMC. Others participated in this call for designs including Bizzarrini. [Other sources indicate that Giorgetto Giugiaro built a styling mockup, which was never shown to the public. -Jim] The Teague design won by a long shot and was approved to the prototype stage.

BMW was contacted to construct the prototypes, but was not chosen because of their elevated prices. So AMC asked Giotto Bizzarrini [a top race car engineer and builder] if he would do the prototypes. [AMC also considered having Karmann in Germany build the car.] Giotto was contracted for ten prototypes and the follow on construction. (Apparently the brass at AMC felt unsure about the prospect of building a mid-engined car.) The first prototype was mostly completed (90%ish) and a construction problem appeared suddenly. The English to Metric conversions from the drawings were incorrect and the car could not be completed to a driving state. This car was a push-mobile used for shows only (It was cosmetically correct). The next 4 cars were completed with proper conversions. The research that followed was conducted by AMC in the U.S. as well as by BMW and Turin Polytechnic in Europe.

About this time (late 1969) AMC learned about Ford's work with DeTomaso and the Pantera. Result: AMC introduced the AMX/3 at auto shows around the world one full year before Ford introduced the Pantera. Designers from other makers were shocked (some refused to believe that AMC designed it) and amazed by the car.

Testing results started to come in from BMW and Turin Polytech. BMW proclaimed the body assembly (a boxed sill backbone structure) one of the most rigid structures that they had ever tested. Speed runs were limited to 160 M.P.H. due to body lifting because of the lack of a front spoiler. Cooling modifications were made to cars 2, 3, 4 and 5 and retrofitted to car 1 later in 1970. Meanwhile AMC ordered 5 more prototypes and Giotto began construction.

Ultimately, AMC found that the car would have to sell for more than $12,000; even though that is a small figure today, the Pantera was released for less than $10,000. AMC didn't take the risk. It ordered the unfinished prototypes destroyed and dropped the project. The End.

But not really the end.
Giotto destroyed 4 of his 5 protos. He just couldn't bring himself to chop up the nearly done car. So he and his business partner completed the car themselves from spares. Cars 3, 4, and 5 were sold to Richard Teague. Cars 1 and 2 were lost, found, sold, lost and found again. Dick Teague sold two of his three to private collectors. The whereabouts of car 6 are now known -- it remains to this day in Italy. Dick Teague's comments on the #6 car: "Wow, I wouldn't be surprised if a few more show up." (!!!!)

The aftermath: The cars trade hands and are shown some. Richard Teague purchased the 28 remaining custom built OTO Melara Transaxles from AMC for the storage and shipping fees (to repair his own AMX/3). Motor Trend did a four page retrospective in the June 1990 issue (very highly recommended).

Specifications
What they all have in common:

* 390 c.i.d. engine
* OTO Melara 4 speed transaxle
* Vacuum actuated headlamps (which are rumored to have drooped when the throttles were nailed)
* Power steering
* 4-wheel power disc brakes (hydraulic assist from the power steering pump)
* Teague designed T-window double pane glass between cockpit and engine compartment
* 4-wheel independent suspension: single coil-over shock unequal length A-arm up front and dual coil-over shock trailing arm/A-arm in the rear
* Cars #2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 have a mostly non-functional rear pop- up spoiler
* Leather interior

The Car-by-Car Where-they-Are
(This is information gleaned from as many sources as I could glean from! Possible inaccuracies noted below.)

1. Considering that the car couldn't be made to run because of the construction errors it traded hands a few times. It is currently rusting in the basement of a barn at the Gilmore Classic Car Club Museum. I have personally examined this vehicle (video taped it too!!!). The museum is reluctant to restore the car because the paperwork has purportedly disappeared and its origins are mysterious. No VIN number, but I found a 1973 Michigan license plate in the vehicle. Its number is RIK 423 with 1974 sticker #3-595644. Before Dick Teague passed away he donated a tranny to the museum reportedly. Strangely however the engine in the car has 70-W-No5 marked on the chrome valve covers with black paint, I have no idea. I offered to the curators of the museum to restore the car for free(!). No dice, it looks like bureaucracy has committed this one to rust away, so much for preserving history.
2. Was sold to a guy in MI and was lost by all accounts that I tapped. It reappeared as the "chicken coop" car. For sale when last checked in Indiana for over $200,000. The car is reported to be badly rusted and missing parts. It is also full of bird droppings (yuk!). Good Luck.
3. This car was owned by Richard Teague until his death. It was donated to the San Diego Auto Museum along with most of his papers. This is the car in Motor Trend [and the car pictured on this page??].
4. This car was sold by Teague to unknown persons, then to Mr. Mimbs of Georgia. He sold much of his AMC collection to a man in Alabama. It and the AMX/2 styling exercise are both for sale in Hemmings -- the AMX/3 for $225,000 and AMX/2 for $25,000 (Buy now and Save).
5. This car was sold to Teague and then sold to a man in Florida. I do not know his name, I do not know the car. I do know that the car is blue and was the BMW car. (Possibly inaccurate, however this story confirmed by 2 reliable sources.)
6. This car is still in Italy and differs from the other cars in that it has retractable wipers and a different rear body. It is owned by Giotto's Business partner.
7. ...... Who knows? We're still waiting.
Attached Images
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:38:36 AM by socalamcadmin » Logged

amcramblermarlin
AMC SST
**

Reputation 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 70


« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 03:53:21 PM »

AMX 3 seven made? = Ford GT 40 seven made? so AMX 3 one year ahead of Pantera story really isn't... or rather is yet another note of misinformation in typical AMC literature, whereas the infected AMC literature tends to whine about the AMX 3 not going into full production for one excuse or another, however, IMO, all AMC wanted to do is match Ford tit for a tat to the GT 40, judging not by the always biased AMC literature, but by what actually happened instead -a similar warp poisons nearly every AMC sporty car, such as comparing the '68'70 AMX to the Corvette instead of it's most obvious comparison to Ford's Shelby Mustang... which then showcases AMC's AMX in a better way
Logged
Radamx2
AMC GREMLIN
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2010, 05:55:42 AM »

AMX 3 seven made? = Ford GT 40 seven made? so AMX 3 one year ahead of Pantera story really isn't... or rather is yet another note of misinformation in typical AMC literature, whereas the infected AMC literature tends to whine about the AMX 3 not going into full production for one excuse or another, however, IMO, all AMC wanted to do is match Ford tit for a tat to the GT 40, judging not by the always biased AMC literature, but by what actually happened instead -a similar warp poisons nearly every AMC sporty car, such as comparing the '68'70 AMX to the Corvette instead of it's most obvious comparison to Ford's Shelby Mustang... which then showcases AMC's AMX in a better way
All I can say is every pantera or gt 40 I have seen was a hand built tube framed race car and the Amc AMX3 has factory stamped panels around the engineand used Many of the factory production parts .It was the closest to being a Factory production car of the 3 ...In my opinion
Logged
socalamcadmin
Administrator
RAMBLER
*****

Reputation 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 433



« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 01:25:01 PM »

 Grin
I agree the AMX 3 was all that. Probably should have been put into production on a per order basis.


Anyway are you going to Race in (cal Speed Way) Fontana Next month?
Logged

MANAGEMENT AND ITS MEMBERS
amcramblermarlin
AMC SST
**

Reputation 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 70


« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 05:15:03 PM »

Please accept my apology for ranting the AMX 3 should be compared to Ford's GT40... I thought Ford only made seven, but no, they had to make at least fifty for racing rules. Argh, feathers in my mouth again! But I do think AMX 3 history needs more context and comparison, not only to Ford's Pantera. GM's mid-engined prototypes could be compared, as they were doing mid-engined prototypes at that time, but not making them.

Automotive Quarterly? featured a high quality chapter on the AMX 3, having beautiful photos and a centerfold. The article was well written and had pictures of various prototype proposals such as the foam dummy. Their article told about AMC's interest in making the whole AMX 3 with plastic injection molding, as AMC at that time had the largest plastic injection molding machine in the industry (in the world?) through their Kelvinator division. (they had the capacity to do the whole car in one mold) The article said they wanted to, but were shyed away for fear of any Ralph Nader type scenario.

The original Mustang was to be a mid-engined (four cylinder?) two person sports car, Ford showing the prototypes but releasing the car to the public as a re-bodied Falcon. A Camaro/Firebird prototype was originally a two seater sports car that looked much like the Corvette, but they too were rather made as a large sized  sporty compact, the '69 Camaro also having the fake side scoops like the Mustang being the only hint of the original idea car. Pontiac finally got to do their mid-engined sports car with the Fiero which was plastic bodied, pointing to the AMX 3 idea for historical reference. Anti-AMC biased writers probably wouldn't event think to tell the whole story though.

There's a man who is making his own AMX 3, custom built. He has molds, and wants to sell bodies? His website is AMX390.com ?
Logged
amcramblermarlin
AMC SST
**

Reputation 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 70


« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 04:23:12 PM »

About six years ago there was a website that had a list of all known AMX 3s with photos and history of each car, but website is gone for now... AMX390.com has a new list of the six known cars at <http://www.amx390.com/amx3a.html>

I still wait for some hot rod customizer to build a mid engined Matador coupe, and in my mind I wonder why those mid engined Matadors are not a common topic among AMC enthusiasts...
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP (C) of Socalamc.Com
Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.145 seconds with 26 queries.